The Shatzkin Files


Learning some things at dinner in Sao Paolo


I was struck when I visited Australia three years ago at how the protection of thousands of miles of ocean had kept their book trade looking like ours did three decades ago. Prices of books were very high in stores and there were lots of stores and lots of independent stores. But the biggest moat in the world couldn’t keep the forces of digital change at bay forever. All of the forces of online bookselling, discounting, and ebooks are now hitting Oz, and booksellers are feeling a dramatic impact. When an old publishing salt brought two Australian booksellers in to visit me last May and I was pretty apocalyptic describing what they should expect, they didn’t disagree with me. They were feeling it.

So a purely anecdotal report of the difficulties of one specialist independent in Australia resonates, even though I generally don’t put much truck in one person’s opinion about one entity’s fate.

This week I am in Brazil. My new friend Ricardo Costa, who runs Publish News, a local operation reminiscent of our Publishers Lunch (and who has been translating a post from The Shatzkin Files into Portuguese for his audience weekly for several months) gathered a group of publishers and a bookseller to join me for dinner on Monday night so I could learn a bit about the state of the Brazilian book trade. Because they were not joining us to be put on the record, I’m keeping my dinner companions anonymous.

For many reasons, the situation on the ground in Brazil is much more like Australia three years ago than it is like the US today. There has been very little take up of ebooks. One major reason for that is that there is a paucity of devices. Brazil charges punitive taxes on electronics assembled outside the country, which all ereaders are. The only device that got any play in the market previously was the Cool-er Reader, and that company has gone bust. One of our dinner companions is a bookstore owner (a small but very important chain) that started selling a new ereader yesterday. This e-ink device with no wifi or 3G, requiring (like Sony) that you import to your computer and then transfer to the device, will sell for the equivalent of just under $400. That’s about triple what Kindle is charging US consumers for its new wifi-enabled device.

I got to handle the device. It’s smaller and lighter than a Kindle, with touch-screen capability and a built-in dictionary, and a more solid feel. But at its high price and without the direct connectivity to enable acquiring new books directly into the machine, it is no more than a step on the path to widespread ebook uptake.

Discounting through online resellers has entered the market. (The retailer in the crowd, which has a very successful web operation, refuses to discount his online sales below his store prices. “That would be telling my customers not to visit my stores!”) My dinner companions were concerned about the effects of the discounting. The online resellers get books from publishers totally on consignment (no inventory carrying cost) and are selling at very deep discounts. This inevitably will have negative consequences for brick-and-mortar stores.

As one of my dinner companions, who runs a large publisher, said, “we want to know what happens in the US because it is what will happen in Brazil five or ten years later.” Both he and the bookstore owner could see that the future for stores will get increasingly difficult.

The entire table agreed that retail price maintenance, such as exists in France and Germany but which is almost universally sneered at by the Americans and British, would be a boon to the entire book trade.

One of the party, a children’s book publisher, reported that Mexico had just introduced retail price maintenance. As a result, her company was renegotiating all their terms with retailers and wholesalers in Mexico to take discounts down. And, at the same time, they will be lowering the prices of their books. From her perspective, the prices to the consumer will remain pretty much the same as they were with discounting, her take will remain pretty much the same as it was with the lower prices and lower discounts, and the effective margin to the retailers will also be pretty much unchanged. But the market will be more stable and less subject to control by the biggest players who can afford to be the most aggressive discounters.

This is not the picture that is painted by most powers-that-be and economic experts in the US and the UK.

One thing that became abundantly clear here in Brazil is that epub conversion in smaller languages is going to be a bottleneck. Most of the ebooks available in this market are PDFs because the market is too small to encourage publishers to invest in the conversions. Of course, PDFs don’t deliver nearly as attractive a reading experience. But there aren’t the same resources available for epub conversions in Portuguese that there are in English (and, presumably, in Spanish or French). That is going to slow down adoption of ereading in many parts of the world and, furthermore, tilt those who do use ebooks to read in English rather than their local language so they can get the benefits of reflowed delivery. I’ve seen ebooks as a potential boon to publishers in smaller languages, enabling them to reach a scattered diaspora, but it isn’t going be as effective if putting Welsh or Danish into epub is expensive.

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  • http://librosenlanube.blogspot.com Julieta Lionetti

    Hi, Mike.
    Glad you are getting in touch with another reality. Maybe now you can understand why I was not so much surprised/outraged with the so called “agency model”.
    Publishers in the UK (Serpent's Tail one of them) who have observed the price maintenance policies in the Continent, agree that in the long run price maintenance helps books and readers, because it's a way of preserving the bookstores and smaller players. And books aren't more expensive in France or Spain or Germany than in the UK. On the contrary, they are cheaper, though not as in the States.
    This said, I'm afraid that price maintenance will not be such a boon regarding ebook adoption. In places like Brazil or Argentina, we don't have the many and differenciated bookstores Australia used to enjoy. There are vast parts of the territory not covered by distribution, entire cities without a good bookstore. Books you can get in Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires, are impossible to buy in other, less central cities. Our problem is not one of abundance, but one of scarcity. Just try to imagine it as a rural landscape previous to Gutenberg, because it's as dramatic. Entire populations live outside the book culture, consuming mass-media on their TV sets and radio devices.
    In this scenario, I think that ebooks can really play a r/evolucionary rol in colonizing entire populations to the book. True that we don't have ereaders yet. Maybe, we'll never have them (I'm trying to get a Kindle 3 and I would have to pay more in taxes than what I have to pay to Amazon) buy there's an all encompasing device which every citizen owns: a cell-phone. Cell-phones are everywhere, in big cities like Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires, and in the middle of the Patagonia. Smartphones (iPhone, Android, whatever) are here to stay and prices will drop, though not steeply.
    In our countries, we have no time to build the rich ecosystem of bookstores that Europe or the States had buildt (only to see them crumbling now under the weight of heavy scale economy and too much titles), the statu quo is less important here. But we can build a healthy ecosystem for ebooks, have more people reading what they want to read, even reading at all, if we start to produce with those devices in mind: the cell-phones.
    Do we need a leap of faith in order to accomplish this leap into the present? Yes. But when anything happened without such kind of leaps?

  • Andrew Malkin

    Mike,
    Hope you can connect with Ediouro who is partners with Thomas Nelson. I don't agree that PDF delivers a less satisfactory reading experience unless you are talking about downloadind a straight one from a publisher's web site. We convert from PDFs and they look amazing. I know several publishers (granted layout-intensive or illustrated) who are not fond of the results when they try to put their books into EPUB for Apple or others.
    Any talk of other digital content (newspapers, magazines, custom pubs) or book-centric?
    Thanks for the post esp the part about retail price maintenance. I haven't seen much on this topic of late.
    Best,
    Andrew

  • http://idealog.com/blog Mike Shatzkin

    The challenge, I think, to making a big market for ebooks on cell phone will
    be that the epub conversion is absolutely mandatory. There's no way you can
    read a normal book PDF effectively on a cell phone. So we have that standard
    chicken and egg situation which is that there's an investment necessary to
    make the content suitable for the medium but the medium can't develop
    without enough suitable content. And in the less connected regions you're
    describing, one imagines that selling books in English, where there are
    plenty of titles in epub, won't cut it.

    Mike

  • http://idealog.com/blog Mike Shatzkin

    Andrew, the PDFs I saw required moving around the document to see all parts
    of it. It didn't fit comfortably on the screen.

    I am well connected with Ediuro and had dinner with the executive who worked
    with them and managed the Nelson relationship.

    I think we're out of the habit of discussing retail price maintenance in the
    US and UK. It is a very unfashionable subject to bring up and I suspect most
    of the publishers that supported Agency to accomplish it for ebooks would
    balk at supporting it for print.

    Mike

  • Miha Kovac

    Hi Mike

    I find the Brasilian problems with the cost of the conversion to epub a bit weird. For last half a year, in our publishing house (Mladinska knjiga, Slovenia, which is a tiny market in comparison with Brasil) we're doing conversions from Indesign to epub of all narrative books that we held electronic rights for and we find this procsess neither expensive not time conusming (okay, it takes a few hours to do it on book that has a lot of chapters, but still, in comparison with print costs this is nothing.). The problem of course arises if the file of an older book is not in Indesign, as the book has to be conversed to Indesign first, but this problem will dissapear in few years. And yes, I agree (after reading a bunch of e-books as pdfs and in epub) that epub is more reader-friendly.

  • Tshuttleworth

    Mike –

    Glad you have enjoyed your time in Brazil. I am down here as well for the book show. It's been a fantastic market for us, but we do not sell eBooks here, yet. Doing much more with digital printing, as Ediouro has an operation outside of Rio.

    Tod Shuttleworth

  • http://librosenlanube.blogspot.com Julieta Lionetti

    The next 9-10 September the 21st Publishing Conference of Buenos Aires is going to take place. It's a tiny international event which, we hope, will be the seed for a Digital Conference starting in 2011. In my address, I'm going to evangelize against pdf, which is the easy/wrong road some publishers begin to thread due to flimsy advice and thrifty policies. Pdf is, of course, a losers choice, because though it requires less investment, to invest in useless processes defies the logic of economics.
    To make a long story short, pdf is not digital publishing. Period.
    As Miha Kovac states, Epub conversion is not *that* expensive as to be out of reach for publishers in developing countries, especially if you consider that the market situation is not one of canibalizing sales, as it could be in more developed markets, but one of colonizing new and different readers. Thus, creating new markets.
    Metadata are expensive, yes. But we have an advantage here: we must create them from scratch, no former investments made obsolete by new technologies. Late comers can thrive from early adopters experience.
    Books in English will conquer a segment of this developing market, I'm sure because I'm in that segment of the demographics. But we are the people who always read in English and bought books at Amazon. Now, we don't have to wait 20 days for the book to arrive (when it doesn't get stopped at customs). We are the ones in the developing markets who will contribute to the canibalization of sales of legacy publishers in developed countries. But this is another story.

  • http://idealog.com/blog Mike Shatzkin

    Miha, they are starting with PDFs, not inDesign. I am not sure whether they
    were using inDesign or not.

    And several hours of work times enough titles is a substantial investment.
    This is a (relative to yours) big market with a lot of titles.

    And the comparison should not be to print costs, but to the potential reward
    available from creating the epub. First you have to have a customer base
    that reads ebooks. Then you have to believe the incremental sales from
    delivering epub as opposed to PDF will be worth the additional effort. In
    margin-challenged times, not all publishers here will believe that.

    Mike

  • http://idealog.com/blog Mike Shatzkin

    Tod, thanks for checking in. Perhaps I'll see you at the show today.

    Mike

  • http://idealog.com/blog Mike Shatzkin

    The English cannibalization you talk about is “another story”, but it might
    become a very important story. People and institutions interested in
    protecting and perpetuating a language would do well to think about
    facilitating epub conversions.

    Mike

  • Calabocadilma

    Hello Mike, the name of the city is wrong. It is São Paulo (you can copy and paste, because I know can't typo ~ with your keyboard)

  • http://idealog.com/blog Mike Shatzkin

    Sorry you have to live with my limitations!

    Mike
    On the iPhone
    Minimal keyboard

  • Ana Coelho

    There is a new law in Brazil that lets you bring e-books readers without pay taxes. So, I think that situation above described is going to change quickly.

    Ana Coelho (São Paulo, Brazil)

  • http://idealog.com/blog Mike Shatzkin

    That would be great news but nobody I spoke to in the trade anticipated it.

    Mike

  • Ana Coelho

    Mike, please, see this (use google translator): http://portalexame.abril.com.br/tecnologia/noti…

  • http://twitter.com/vbenevolofranca Valeria França

    Hi Mike,

    I was at your talk on Wednesday and I think that the thing that most struck me is the way in which ebooks will be read. The whole question of availability of devices here is, for me, one of the central issues. Yes, regulations for bringing technological devices into Brazil has recently changed as someone commented, but this is at an individual level. And we're only talking about a priviledged few who can travel abroad and bring a device over.
    What we really do need is to ensure these devices become as popular as mobile phones here (which are bought by the population in general), then I think we stand a good chance of diseminating ebooks on a more wider scale. But until this happens, it'll be restricted to a specific group of people.

  • http://twitter.com/thecreativepenn Joanna Penn

    Hi Mike,
    What you say about Australia is so true. As a rabid reader from the UK (and used to great prices) I find myself buying primarily from Amazon.com for the Kindle. Ebooks are a quarter of the price of the physical book. I roam bookstores with Kindle in hand, browsing the books and then downloading samples immediately, to be further browsed and read later. If I want to buy a physical book, I get it shipped from the US as it is cheaper than buying here. Devastating and sad, but true.
    Thanks, Joanna

  • http://librosenlanube.blogspot.com Julieta Lionetti

    Right!

  • http://idealog.com/blog Mike Shatzkin

    Thanks for the link, Ana. I never doubted the specific point you made, but
    only allowing people to bring them back for personal use will not change the
    picture that much. They have to be sold in stores and on the internet at
    prices that make sense to get any really substantial uptake, I think. So
    that means there would need to be a reduction in the taxation on importation
    and everybody I asked, without exception, was very skeptical about that
    happening anytime soon.

    Mike

  • http://irishpublishingnews.com/2010/08/18/daily-links-18082010/ Daily Links 18/08/2010 | Irish Publishing News

    [...] some things at dinner in Sao Paolo Fascinating post from Mike Sjatzkin Read more… window.fbAsyncInit = function() { FB.init({appId: "113903931986893", status: true, cookie: true, [...]

  • Pat Seibel

    Mike,
    I don't think taxation is the only problem. The culture of reading when commuting, so common in the US ad UK, is almost inexistent in Brazil. Plus, with the amount of robberies on the streets of Brazil's main cities, I don't see people using a Kindle or iPad 'en masse' in the public transport or cafes.
    In addition to that, there isn't the same demand for electronic content from academic libraries there, for example, which existed in the UK long before all the eBook hype.
    A couple of years ago I was talking to a big Brazilian publisher who told me that a lot of publishers had PDF files but were waiting for 'someone' like Amazon to start selling eBooks there. Big mistake! I was glad to know (a couple of months ago) that some big publishers tehre are setting up their own digital warehouse. eBooks can be a brilliant solution to one of Brazil's main peoblems: lack of distribution/bookshops in lots of cities. But we shouldn't forget that, behind all recent hype, Brazil still has a huge illiterate/poor population.
    As for fixed prices… the agency model says it all. Bring on the Net Book Agreement back. ;-)

  • Pat Seibel

    Calabocadiloma is brilliant!

  • http://idealog.com/blog Mike Shatzkin

    Thanks for expanding on the complexities of introducing ereading to Brazil.
    And I don't disagree with you about the net book agreement but I don't think
    it will be happening in the United States in the foreseeable future. It is
    counter to the American DNA. (So is agency pricing and it isn't clear to me
    that it will survive legal tests here.)

    Mike

  • Pat Seibel

    Oh, I also have my doubts whether it would survive legal tests. And we are surely not the only ones. Went to a presentation by some lawyers about the agency model here in the UK a couple of weeks ago. They've come up with some, to say the least, interesting ideas.

  • http://www.idealog.com/blog/all-publishers-and-book-retailers-are-global-now All publishers and book retailers are global now – The Shatzkin Files

    [...] slapped me in the face there (a sort of “d’uh, I shoulda known that” moment) was the paucity of titles available in epub format in Portuguese. That meant that Portuguese-language ebooks were PDFs, which are not reflowable and very clumsy to [...]